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CanningTownWA 8:10 Sat Sep 16
Hernandez

Fair assessment from the Guardian

How does Bilic get the best out of Hernández?
West Ham United rallied around their beleaguered manager and went back to basics against Huddersfield on a wet and windy night at the London Stadium, securing their first league win with the kind of ugly performance that would make the likes of Lionel Messi think twice about playing in the famously tough Premier League. Slaven Bilic covered up his defence’s ponderousness by playing a back three, Michail Antonio created problems by bulldozing down both flanks and Andy Carroll’s uncomplicated game unsettled their opponents

Yet while Bilic bought himself some time, the win was built on shaky foundations. West Bromwich Albion are unlikely to be overawed by Carroll’s aerial threat at the Hawthorns, while the inclusion of the big striker against Huddersfield saw Javier Hernández shunted out to the left flank, where he was unsurprisingly ineffective and eventually substituted. The return of Marko Arnautovic from suspension could see the Mexican dropped to the bench, with Carroll continuing to lead the line instead. It is enough to make one wonder if West Ham have thought this through properly. Hernández’s scoring record at Manchester United and Bayer Leverkusen was impressive but because he is not at his best linking play, United often used him as an impact substitute. For a top team chasing a goal, he is a major asset. For a lesser side needing to relieve pressure, £16m signing Hernández lacks stature. He would probably be more dangerous playing alongside Carroll in a classic front two, but then the dilemma for Bilic would be how to fit Antonio, Arnautovic and Manuel Lanzini into his attack.

In theory West Ham’s lone striker should be Diafra Sakho, who is quick, strong and dangerous. However the Senegalese needs to regain Bilic’s trust after his deadline-day shenanigans, meaning that West Ham could once again find themselves relying on Carroll, without necessarily being set up to exploit his strengths properly. Carroll has much to offer when he is fit but his presence also make the team too direct, making it harder to stretch opponents, cramping space for creative players. It is up to Bilic to find the right balance. JS

Alex V 2:10 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

>>> Bilic has proved inept at playing players out of position.

And quite often, he's proven inept at playing players in their natural position.

Overall, he's inept.

Tomshardware 2:06 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Bilic has proved inept at playing players out of position. Playing Antonio at right back when he'd been our best attacking player was strange enough.

J.Riddle 1:16 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Hammers1993 11:27 Tue Sep 19

That team would be what I would go for considering Kouyate and Cresswell are out of form. Having said that Matsuaku and Ogbonna have also been out of form, but deserve another chance. I don't rate Fonte.

As other have said Bilic's insistence to play Carroll is making us predictable, ineffective and playing route one by default, this is why Rogers got rid of Carroll. How long Sakho's back will last is anyone's guess, but we could always play Ayew up with Chico if it fails, anything is better than Carroll starting.

Carroll is perfect for the last 20 minutes end of. Carroll won't like it, but we will be quids in saving his wages if he goes.

Takashi Miike 1:04 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

carroll can sit on the bench then :.)

13 Brentford Rd 1:00 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Billic has now admitted that Hernandez & Carroll can't play together, which only proves how disjointed our transfer policy is and that he still doesn't know how he wants to set the team up.

southlondonhammer 12:49 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

------------------------------Hart------------------------------------

----------Kouyate-------Reid----------Ogbonna-----------------

----------------------Zab----------Obiang--------------------------

----Antonio------------Lanzini-----------Creswell------------

-----------------Carroll-----------Hernandez----------------

Sniper 12:39 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Hammers 93

Absolutely spot on. That formation is the only one that will truly accommodate our best players in their best positions. My question would be, as it's essentially a diamond style, can arnautovic be trusted to do the leg work required.

You can't waste antonio at wing back and Lanzini out wide - that's madness. But Lanzini behind two mobile strikers is like a far improved version of that brief, very successful spell of downing in behind sakho and Valencia.

Regards Carroll, the one thing I do feel sorry for him with is that we never put any effort into giving him quality balls to feed off. Everything is just lumped up to him. If proper deliveries were put into the box or good balls stood up at the back post for him, he's a menace. But he's not good enough on the ball to constantly hold it up and bring others in for 90 minutes. We get so lazy when he's on the pitch. Maybe if he was in a front two we might recognise that there are other options with other players as well as just belting it to him

Sniper 12:34 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Eddie

If he can't see how to play them together then he should just walk now!

Hammers1993 11:46 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Having Antonio at RWB is a waste and also I truly feel Chicharito needs the 2 man up top, instead of the interchaning wingers coming beside him.

That is what would get the best out of the team.

Unfortunately for us Bilic doesn't have a clue on many fronts, one of the biggest being defensively meaning a 4 at the back is a no go under our current manager.

Hopefully someone else is in soon who will drop the "favourites" for the actual players who should be starting.

Stubbo 11:39 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Or you can go:

------------------------Hart

-------Zabaleta-----Reid----Ogbonna

Antonio-----Obiang----Kouyate------Masuaku/Cresswell

------Lanzini-----Hernandez---Arnautovic


The real issue is the manager's love for Carroll and desire to have him in the team.

His goal record even when fit shouldn't put him ahead of Hernandez in the pecking order...only at West Ham can you go and sign the 20 goals a season man you've been desperate for for years, and then relegate him away from being the goalscorer as soon as a crock who gives you 15 games a season is available.

I agree Hernandez needs strength alongside him, but surely that is the point of Arnautovic and if playing as the forward position (e.g. now whilst Lanzini is out) Antonio...both very strong physical wingers, who if the play is down one side, the other shuffles into the middle alongside Hernandez and vice versa.

Carroll has to be an impact sub...we can no longer and should no longer build our way of playing around him being in the team. It's not the football the fans want to see, it's not sensible with his injury record and it's not even sensible with his goals to games record.

Longer term I'd like to see us bring in a truly dominant defensive midfielder, that would allow us to play Lanzini more like Modric as a deep lying central creative midfielder (basically a massive upgrade on Noble) alongside the defensive midfielder, allowing Anontio to play further forward and a more allround wing back to come in on the right.

Hammers1993 11:27 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Facts are, after nearly 3 years slav still does not know his best 11 or formation. Same happened last year, he sold Tomkins then we started playing 3 at the back but didn't have the personnel so he put square pegs in round holes. Again.

This time he goes on record saying he is happy with all the signings he has made but then in a press conference yesterday says with Arnautovic now back in contention (A player he wanted) it is now impossible to get everyone in the team whilst playing 3 at the back.

He has also been proved, in front of his face that Chicharito will only work for us in a 2 man front line, we are not Real Madrid, he needs that support next to him as the only goals he has scored have been when a striker was on playing next to him (in the Southampton game). He is brilliant at that role and is exactly why we signed him, if bilic continues playing Chicharito on the wing it's only a matter of time before he's another our manager has pissed off and will want to leave.

Unfortunately with the players we have:

- Antonio (arguably our best attacking player at times, just behind Lanzini)

- Lanzini (who's best role is behind the striker(s).

- Arnautovic (our record signing)

- Chicharito (need's a 2nd striker to play alongside)

The only formation that would accomodate these players is this:

--------------------Hart----------------------------
--Zabaleta--Reid--Ogbonna--Masuaku---
-------------------Obiang--------------------------
--Antonio-------Lanzini----------Arnautovic--
--------------Sakho--Chicharito----------------

Man City played that formation at the weekend. (yes we are not Man City, but with the players we have it's the only way it accomdates them to their best roles.

Carroll would be an impact sub around 60 mins for me as him playing just changes the whole gameplan, him coming on as an impact sub would be extremely useful.

Willtell 8:43 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Oh! So 3-5-2 hasn't been invented yet then?

Back 3
2 wide, 1 or 2 defensive midfielder, 1 or 2 attacking midfielders.
2 strikers.

I thought Bilic was supposed to be clever. He isn't forced to play 3-4-3. Perhaps he should have thought about it a bit more before buying Chicharito....?

Eddie B 8:26 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

http://dailym.ai/2xbyDt4

Load of bollocks

skunklauncher 2:08 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

What about 3-4-3 and don't try to pair Carroll and Hernandez?

Lanzini/Arnoutavic -- Hernandez/Carroll -- Antonio/Sakho

-----Cress/illunga2 -- Obi -- Wily -- Mark Strong/Byram

---------------------------------3 CBs

-----------------------------------GK

Sniper 1:30 Tue Sep 19
Re: Hernandez

Alex

Think there's enough in here to suggest carvalho is a way better passer than kouyate could dream of being

https://youtu.be/spAOPmX-71g

Although the tactic against carvalho would be tonjust force him into his left foot - he's the most blatantlynkne footed player I've seen in some time!

The 343/442/4231/352 debate/issue is the one I've been talking about all summer

You can't play 3 at the back and have Lanzini and Antonio in the team, unless one of them plays out of position - either Lanzini out wide or Antonio at wing back or even in a central midfield role

We need to find a way to make 4 at the back work and I think the only reason it doesn't is organisation

theaxeman 11:05 Mon Sep 18
Re: Hernandez

Ornchurch

You seem reluctant to say who you'd play, personally id play Antonio and drop Zabaleta into a back 3. If Antonio knuckled down to it he would be outstanding there , like moses or Valencia who started as wingers

theaxeman 10:56 Mon Sep 18
Re: Hernandez

Sir Alf

I agree our transfer policy is utter shit, whether thats down to Bilic or our self appointed DOF is open to debate. I think Bilic wants to play 4231 but just hasnt been given the tools. He was desperate for Carvalho and was let down and we got a striker who cant play on his own, he's as weak as piss. Its a fucking abortion of a team, zero pace, zero guile without Lanzini and to a lesser extent Noble and must be the slowest back 3/4 in the league. We spent 4 million we needed 10x that at least.

Sir Alf 9:41 Mon Sep 18
Re: Hernandez

As on the other thread. With a 3 at the back system we would need better wing backs than an ageing Zabaleta and erratic Cresswell ? Arfur would be better going forward although his crossing is wayward too and his defensive instincts and positional play is downright rank or has been in many games.

Squad is out of balance and worse still "half baked". Does not have the quality to play either 4 or 3 at the back that well. Sullivan and Bilic have made a "dogs dinner" of it IMO :-)

ornchurch ammer 9:10 Mon Sep 18
Re: Hernandez

Tough decisions have to be made otherwise you end up playing Hernandez out of position.

theaxeman 5:47 Mon Sep 18
Re: Hernandez

Well to play that you going to have drop Zabaleta or Antonio and bear in mind bilic was roundly criticised for playing Antonio wing back

ornchurch ammer 5:43 Mon Sep 18
Re: Hernandez

Wing backs? Pretty much same as last couple of games. Zabaleta and Cresswell or Antonio and Cresswell.

Middle 3 would be Obiang, Kouyate and Lanzini.

Point is if you are going to sign a goal scorer then you have to play him where he is going to score goals.

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